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Pics of my Freshly French Polished Parlor
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Author:  BruceH [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:06 am ]
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Here's a couple of pics of my first FP attempt. Of course it's hard to get a good shot of the gloss in a photo (at least it is for me), but I'm really pleased with how this one turned out. It's much nicer than it looks in these pics, and much, much better than the waterborne I used on my first two. I really like the feel and look of FP shellac.

Many thanks to those who have offered FP advice, and special thanks to MichaelP who always had an answer for me, no matter how dumb my questions

I've really got to put together a good photo set-up...




Author:  JJ Donohue [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:46 am ]
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Beautiful finish, Bruce.

Notice how the reflection of the blue sky gives it a blue cast. Is this what we may be causing the people to report on waterborne blues?

What woods?

Tell us more about your neck attachment design.
Author:  Don A [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:59 am ]
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Bruce, the reflection of towel in the back says it all. Very nicely done. You folks are eventually going to convince me to give it a try. I'd also like to hear more about the wood and neck attachment.
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:17 am ]
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Looks great!!! Wanna tell us about that neck joint?
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:08 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Don A] Bruce, the reflection of towel in the back says it all. [/QUOTE]

Reflection? I thought the guitar was transparent!

Looks great! More details?
Author:  BruceH [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:10 pm ]
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Thanks, guys.

JJ - Interesting observation about the blue cast. I assure you that there is no blue at all in this guitar, so it had to be the reflection. My house has blue siding and this pic was taken about 15' away from the house. I'm sure that skewed the color also. The top is not nearly this red either. However, the Target 9000 that I used earlier also had a bluish/plasticy cast indoors.

The top is a piece of redwood used as a packing scrap for the redwood tops I got from Hank in the OLF group buy. I used it because I wanted to learn to work with redwood without ruining a nice top. It's a three piece top.

The b/s are South American Laurel. Bindings are EIR.

I've included a pic of the neck so that you can see the other half of the neck joint. It's my version of an adjustable neck joint. The neck is attached with threaded inserts. I reinforced the stacked heel with a 1/2 dowel as per Mario's approach. (Thanks Mario)

A part of the neck extends to nearly the end of the fretboard and the top is cut out to match. The FB sits on top of the top and hides the cutout.


Adjusting bolts screw into the tee nuts you see in the neck block and adjust the angle and centerline alignment of the neck. The slotted holes in the neck block allow up and down adjustment of the neck. The neck fits in to the cutout in the neck block and allows for about 1/8" for and aft movement to tweak intonation.

Four braces run from the neck block to the transverse brace. Two run straight from the neck block to the TB along the side of the cut out and two more run at a 45 degree angle to meet the TB where it joins the sides. We'll soon see it it works.

When you look at the rough construction of my neck joint, consider that this was meant to be a quick, cheap, and crude prototype and not meant to be a nice guitar.

Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:59 pm ]
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Bruce,

A really beautiful finish! I have seen some FP that looked like oiled wood. This doesn't. This looks lacquered, or shellaced, or shellaquered or... I mean there's a very substantial finish on this guitar, which I think really shows what you can do with FP if you work at building up the finish.

Dennis
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:01 pm ]
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Bruce, great looking finish. How long did it take to do? I'm thinking of trying it out myself sometime soon. What did you do for pore filing?
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:42 pm ]
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Very nice finish. It really does look transparant in the towel shot. WTG!
Author:  BruceH [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:05 am ]
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Ken,
It took me several weeks to do this, but I only worked on it a little at a time. I'd do a 5-10 minute session and then let it dry. Most of my time was spent fixing mistakes since this was my first attempt.

I filled with Z-poxy 30-minute epoxy. I used a razor blade and had everything dead level before I started.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:25 am ]
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Super job Bruce I can see the gloss very nice

No such thing as a dumb questionMichaelP38664.3945138889
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:50 am ]
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Nice work Bruce!
I also have a Redwood Packing top from Hank!
Great idea!
Author:  Colby Horton [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:12 am ]
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Nice Guitar!! Love the finish.
Author:  Roy O [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:43 am ]
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Looking good Bruce. Be sure to post it when it's completed and let us know how it sounds.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:30 am ]
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So your pitch and roll adjustments are from inside, through the sound hole, and your fretboard extension free floats in the body?

Boy I can think of all sorts of questions on this. I like the Idea of two axis adjustment. So I gather that the heal is the tendon. How mush play in the mortise do you leave for the off center adjustment?
I want to se finished pictures of this. If the neck to body joint looks good, I may have to give this a try once.
MichaelP38664.5346990741
Author:  Dave White [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:14 am ]
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Bruce,

That's a gorgeous finish and a sweet guitar. I really like the way French polish lets the wood shine through as well as the guitars's sound. Also your neck joint looks really interesting. Do the 3 ajustable tee bolts butt against the heelblock wood or have you put brass rod inserts in the heel block where they meet? Am I right in thinking that you set the adjustments with the 3 tee bolts and then fix the neck by tightening the 2 bolts that go into the heel? To alter the neck angle I suppose you have to first loosen the two holding bolts to give room for adjustment. Let us know how it works in practice. I think it's very exciting.

I am with you on the free-floating neck idea. I think that the box has it's own structural integrity and movements and that trying to fix the neck/fingerboard in two dimensions (perpendicular AND parallel to the top) either by glueing the fingerboard extension down or bolting it to an extension of the neck block will have the fingerboard and box "fighting" to some degree rather than doing what both can do best in combination.

I've never been convinced by the argument that the neck joint to the body is important for transfering maximum string energy to the body. I can't wait for the day when thechnology can enable a neck to be held to the body with say magnetic or other force that lets there be a tiny air gap between the two but with the neck firmly held with no contact to the body at all. I suspect such a guitar would sound great.

I like the idea of the soundbox construction keeping the neck block rigid to resist the string pull and possible flattening of the back arch via flying buttress braces, and the neck being free floating with fingerboards being supported as part of the neck construction (rather than a neck block extension) with an adjustment system bolting on the front to allow for movements in time to bring action back on track.

I am currently making a guitar/bouzouki with a similar arrangement to yours but using a version of Mike Doolin's adjustable neck system with the bottom bolt held "captive" in the neckblock under tension against a washer to adjust the neck angle. This means you can do the adjustment with strings under full tension. I also like the way that you can extend the carbon fibre rods and truss rod in the part of the neck that supports the fingerboard extension:




To support the neck block I use carbon fibre buttress braces and A frame top braces:





Many thanks to people like Rick Turner, Mike Doolin and Howard Klepper for sharing their ideas and pointing me in this direction and kudos to people like you Bruce for trying out such ideas.
Author:  BruceH [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:31 am ]
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Michael – Yes the neck adjusts from the inside and the fb extension free floats. There will be a slight gap on each side of the neck where it enters the body – maybe .015 gap, but I think its impact could be minimized by installing a strip of black purfling on each side of the neck opening. I didn’t worry about it on this build since it’s a prototype.

Dave – I agree that the FP really lets the wood shine through. When I see it, I think “wood” instead of “plastic.”

Your description of how this neck joint works is correct. The three adjustable tee bolts butt against the wood of the neck heel. I did not install any brass rod inserts into the neck, but I can see how that might be a better way to go. Sharpened bolts into brass inserts would really hold the neck securely. I’ll let you know how this works.

Thanks for the encouragement and the pics. I thought about using the flying buttress braces, but on this parlor the upper bout was so small that I didn’t think that I would be giving up much by making it strong enough to take the pressure from the neck block. I think that the next time I’ll try the flying buttress idea, but I wonder if one running from the top would be enough. Martin uses bolt on necks and the bottom of the neck block is connected to the back by only the width of the kerfed lining.

Anyway, since I’ll never be a master builder, it sure is fun to experiment.

I’ll give you guys a full report when I finish this thing.
Author:  RussellR [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:55 am ]
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Bruce and Dave Wow

Really interesting stuff, absolutely brilliant.

Much Respect to both of you, for pushing the envelope.

Dave on the neck extension does that just free float in its pocket ?

Does the fingerboar sit flush to the top ?
Author:  Dave White [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:24 pm ]
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Bruce,

I was thinking more that the small pieces of brass rod in the neck provides a pivot point and stops the tee bolts pressing into the wood under string pressure and hence changing your adjustment. I got the idea from Mike Doolin.

My reasoning on the pairs of flying buttress braces is that you have two different forces - compression at the top of the neck block and tension at the bottom. I definitely want to stop the tension from flattening the back arch and changing neck angle so have one pair fixed on the bottom. Equally with some of the top of the neck block taken away for the fingerboard extension I want support at the top - hence the extra pair. The weight is negligible with carbon fibre, and (although I could be wrong) one pair of braces going from the bottom of the sides to the top of the neck block could still allow some flattening in time of the back arch. I suppose you could call it a "belt and braces" approach

As I say let us know how your system works out.
Author:  Dave White [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:27 pm ]
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[QUOTE=RussellR]
Dave on the neck extension does that just free float in its pocket ?

Does the fingerboar sit flush to the top ? [/QUOTE]

Yes

That's the plan but obviously as you do adjustments you could get a small gap. Visually I don't really think this will be a problem. The biggest challenge is to get the neck heel to look good sitting in the inset pocket at the front. We'll see
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